Curse

doomfodder · Dec 04, 2009, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Without SF (or something like it) there is NO way to effectively manage aggro of large mobs in HM elite areas (referes to DoA specifically). So If aggro in HM elite areas can't be managed, I advocate bringing back the really old school NO SCATTER from AoE in HM elite areas to try to at least kill the mobs BEFORE they BREAK aggro and WIPE the back line...

Gun Pierson · Dec 04, 2009, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blobbob

Plenty of godmode cheats can still end in a "game over." Most platformer games will still end in you dieing if you do something stupid like fall off the world or get crushed by something.

That's true, but the difference is that in those games the player ends the godmode by making a mistake by falling off the world etc., while in GW a creep can counter the 'god-mode' by using a skill. So spell and counterspell, which is a basic gamemechanic in both MTG and GW. That's why imo SF can't be called godmode. Overpowered or imba is something else ofcourse.

A typical godmode skill in GW would be: 'all creeps in the area die, but you still take damage from environmental effects' or 'you can only take damage from environmental effects'

The Drunkard · Dec 04, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshrimp3

You want a challenge? Or at least a bit more of a challenge? Then stop using SF. I'm sorry to repeat the overused and usually stupid argument of "if you don't like it then don't use it" but in this case it helps. If you don't like the fact that everything seems too easy with SF, then why are you using SF? If it's because you're trying to max out your HoM, then you have to pick if you want a challenge or you want the most efficient way to pull that off. Those 2 are rarely going to be equal, in any game or really any facet of life. Make a challenge by limiting yourself from using the most efficient builds.

Sorry, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand; ignoring the problem isn't going to solve it. If Anet doesn't want to nerf the skill to hurt the farmers, then where are all the pve split reverts to the other builds that they killed? I wish Anet stop the degenerate builds and start reworking areas instead of throwing us new cons or shinies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

eres your count of skills that affect SF.
Warrior skills -11
Ranger skills - 24
(OH SNAP WEVE ALRDY PASSED YOUR CLAIM OF 18 SKILLS)
Monk skills - 19
Necro - 27
(STILL WANT ME TO CONTINUE? THATS 81 SKILLS SO FAR THAT HAVE AN EFFECT ON SF AND ONLY 4 PROFESSIONS)
Mesmer skills - 22
Ele - 38
Assasin - 11
Rit - 17
Para - 8
Derv - 24
(Thats 201 SKILLS RIGHT THERE ALONE AND I DIDNT COUNT THEM ALL)

Fun fact: Permasins can bring heals along to nullify pbAoE dmg (aside from some monsters such as earth tormenters). It's how SoD's ran.

You're stupidity is showing...might want to zip it up.

Going back to my original request, how many skills are currently used to stop sins from pretty much doing every high-end area?

Golgotha · Dec 04, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Going back to my original request, how many skills are currently used to stop sins from pretty much doing every high-end area?

How is that SF's fault rather than those equipping the high end mobs? SF is taking advantage of what those high end areas will give them. It is not a god mode by it's design, it's a god mode based on the design of the world around it. The fact that we can name builds to completely shut it down proves this. A few Leech Signet's on mobs and SF's efficiency in SC's would've never arose.

Why can't Anet implement pop ups to dissuade SF SC's, much like they did to the 55 monk ages ago?

UnChosen · Dec 04, 2009, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Sorry, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand; ignoring the problem isn't going to solve it. If Anet doesn't want to nerf the skill to hurt the farmers, then where are all the pve split reverts to the other builds that they killed? I wish Anet stop the degenerate builds and start reworking areas instead of throwing us new cons or shinies.

That's what EVERYONE says, then after they managed to get Anet to nerf the specific skill you never ever hear from the same people again once the areas completely empties (at least until the next gimmick pops up). Everything in this thread is basically a repeat of the Ursan/DoA whining from before...with the same old "degenerate build needs to go first then we can worry about the area" BS. Of course, after the nerf, they just go on their merry way with their "pro" guild laughing now that they managed to kill the area for pugs and casual guilds and now they're "leet" again.

If all these complainer truly cares about the game and not just about the loot and/or excluding others then they would ask Anet to rework the areas or balance the rewards FIRST, then complain about SF.

WarcryOfTruth · Dec 04, 2009, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomfodder

Without SF (or something like it) there is NO way to effectively manage aggro of large mobs in HM elite areas (referes to DoA specifically). So If aggro in HM elite areas can't be managed, I advocate bringing back the really old school NO SCATTER from AoE in HM elite areas to try to at least kill the mobs BEFORE they BREAK aggro and WIPE the back line...

Isn't that why it's called HARD MODE? Sure, it by all means is supposed to be possible to beat, and it is, but it should be harder than what a few of the skills are capable of turning it into.

zwei2stein · Dec 04, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

SO now you aggree the skill is not even close to being invincible. Yet they still affect SF.

I can cast empathy on monk, it clearly affects him but does not counter him. I can Cast ignorance on random foe, but unless he has signets, that affects him but does not counter anything.

Just because they can affect perma does not mean anything. Question is, can they actually affect perma in way that counters it?

And guess what? No, they don't

Perma does not have to step to traps to rape pve, all traps are pointless to mention, hell, you can walk into the if you want, it is just some damage.
Only two spirits affect permaing, others do a bit of damage at most.
Oh yeah, and rangers have touch skill that is useless against perma.

One professions, two skills. Down from your 24.

Zodiac Meteor · Dec 04, 2009, 08:15 AM // 08:15

To help with the subject matter, I took the liberty of making a video.

Shadow Form Effects

Ironically, I'm all for the nerf of Shadow Form

Golgotha · Dec 04, 2009, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

To help with the subject matter, I took the liberty of making a video.

Shadow Form Effects

Ironically, I'm all for the nerf of Shadow Form

Shin Chan.

high priestess anya · Dec 04, 2009, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomfodder

Without SF (or something like it) there is NO way to effectively manage aggro of large mobs in HM elite areas (referes to DoA specifically). So If aggro in HM elite areas can't be managed, I advocate bringing back the really old school NO SCATTER from AoE in HM elite areas to try to at least kill the mobs BEFORE they BREAK aggro and WIPE the back line...

Wrong answer -1 epeen
I know of quite a few ways of handling huge DOA mobs and half of em dont include gimmicks, there is more than enough skills in this game to manage any HM area.
Maybe you should ask around =D
SF is uneccessary, it just makes it mime numbingly easy and lets face facts, HM areas shouldnt be easy, the day pugs can hammer elite areas is the day gw took a nose dive

zwei2stein · Dec 04, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Actually, pugs should be able to complete elite areas with some margin for error on normal (aka, Casual) mode. With just enough resistance that they will have to rethink their builds and get rewarded with success for proper preparations.

No point in being elitist "no, u cant ever see dhuum" jerk.

They just should not be able to farm hell of it easily or complete in in hard mode without being really, really good.

rabwatt · Dec 04, 2009, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Fun fact: Permasins can bring heals along to nullify pbAoE dmg (aside from some monsters such as earth tormenters). It's how SoD's ran.

You're stupidity is showing...might want to zip it up.

Ermmm... think about what you just said.....

'A player can bring heals to nullify damage........'

That is what every profession does..and is kinda the whole concept of the game...... nothing to do with God Mode

Dzjudz · Dec 04, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

SF is uneccessary, it just makes it mime numbingly easy and lets face facts, HM areas shouldnt be easy, the day pugs can hammer elite areas is the day gw took a nose dive

Aside from all the grammar mistakes in this thread that are subsequently flamed by others, this malapropism made me chuckle. Haven't seen this one before

.

toocooltang · Dec 04, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Almost all of the elite area's in guildwars are laughable easy in normal mode if you remember one thing...

Team synergy, you can't bring your favorite huge dmg build you need to COORDINATE with your TEAM and figure out a way to have a HUGE SPAMMABLE SPIKE to kill things fast. jesus its guildwars not rocket science

Cheeva B · Dec 04, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I'll be happy to see SF get nerfed. It should get back to TEAM efforts. I quit the game for awhile, came back to jump in a FoW group but there are no groups going unless you are one of a few professions. Hard Mode areas should be just that, a competent group, not the actions of one profession able to conquer all. Right before I took my hiatus, noone wanted a sin in their group because the only sins worth a flip were ones who knew how to get in, spike, get out. During that time, I made a sin, took it to survivor title, just to show it could be done. Sure, I made a perma later, just to see what all the fuss is about, but I can assure you I use my regular build over the perma build, just because I like to have fun in the game. The assassin gettin props is nice after seeing assassins not wanted for so long, but it got way too much power for what it is supposed to be now. I didnt read to see how they would nerf it, but I'd prefer SF to not be able to be able to be kept up non stop. Maybe keep its current characteristics, but reclassify it as a stance. They nerfed warrior stances to hades and back when Nightfall came out so more people would use a dervish. So make it a stance, shorten duration by 10-20%, and make an assassin what it was supposed to be in the first place; get in, spike, get out. That way other professions can strive and get in groups again. Why they let it go this long reminds me of that "confessions of an ANet employee" story, making it ring even more true. I'm sure many got rich off the SC's, which IMO is rediculous, but come on ANet, let other professions get back in the game =)

Fay Vert · Dec 04, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

That's what EVERYONE says, then after they managed to get Anet to nerf the specific skill you never ever hear from the same people again once the areas completely empties (at least until the next gimmick pops up). Everything in this thread is basically a repeat of the Ursan/DoA whining from before...with the same old "degenerate build needs to go first then we can worry about the area" BS. Of course, after the nerf, they just go on their merry way with their "pro" guild laughing now that they managed to kill the area for pugs and casual guilds and now they're "leet" again.

If all these complainer truly cares about the game and not just about the loot and/or excluding others then they would ask Anet to rework the areas or balance the rewards FIRST, then complain about SF.

Oh, so the skill is fine, it's just the rest of the game is not balanced!!!

Right

(someone call for the men in white coats)

Kenzo Skunk · Dec 04, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Shadow Form has been meeting it`s end for quite some time now. Will it happen at all?

UnChosen · Dec 04, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Oh, so the skill is fine, it's just the rest of the game is not balanced!!!

Right

(someone call for the men in white coats)

The skill is not fine but neither are areas with frustrating design. (or if the design is meant to be that way, the reward is not balanced compared to the risk).

As for the NM/HM argument....splitting the player base that is already dwindling and spread out into two was a bad idea to start with. It makes it even harder to group for anything....

The Drunkard · Dec 04, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabwatt

Ermmm... think about what you just said.....

'A player can bring heals to nullify damage........'

That is what every profession does..and is kinda the whole concept of the game...... nothing to do with God Mode

I did not say a player can bring heals to nullify damage, I said a permasin can. Please don't misquote me. My response was to a poster who thought that every single AoE in the game will affect sins and will stop them from farming high-end areas (which there is very little of).

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

That's what EVERYONE says, then after they managed to get Anet to nerf the specific skill you never ever hear from the same people again once the areas completely empties (at least until the next gimmick pops up). Everything in this thread is basically a repeat of the Ursan/DoA whining from before...with the same old "degenerate build needs to go first then we can worry about the area" BS. Of course, after the nerf, they just go on their merry way with their "pro" guild laughing now that they managed to kill the area for pugs and casual guilds and now they're "leet" again.

If all these complainer truly cares about the game and not just about the loot and/or excluding others then they would ask Anet to rework the areas or balance the rewards FIRST, then complain about SF.

Sorry, I haven't started posting much before Ursan, I'll keep the QQ alive

Anet did exactly this by adding skeletons to UW...and look what happened. The only reason people even play UW now is to get the new items, and most teams need a permasin for 4 horsemen. Balancing the game around a broken skill doesn't work and it never will.

manitoba1073 · Dec 05, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

I did not say a player can bring heals to nullify damage, I said a permasin can. Please don't misquote me. My response was to a poster who thought that every single AoE in the game will affect sins and will stop them from farming high-end areas (which there is very little of).

Sorry, I haven't started posting much before Ursan, I'll keep the QQ alive

Anet did exactly this by adding skeletons to UW...and look what happened. The only reason people even play UW now is to get the new items, and most teams need a permasin for 4 horsemen. Balancing the game around a broken skill doesn't work and it never will.

On the contrary, You and others have claimed it was invincible mode and nothing effects it, I showed you were wrong and have since been doing the BUT BUT BUT excuse.

I didnt make any claim as to stoping UW farming, Once again nice try. How about you take your own advice on misquoting.

And so called balancing a skill around a broken area also dont work either nor has it ever worked.

As far as the list I gave on skills that effect SF, you do realize there is more than 1 mob in UW right. Theres tons of things that could have been properly to fix the areas itself that would have put a end to the times of speed clears.